The "Tyrant"

Understanding the Tyrant in an HOA

In a Homeowners Association (HOA), the presence of a board member who demonstrates tyrannical behavior can disrupt community dynamics and governance significantly. Known as a "Tyrant," this type of board member typically exhibits authoritarian tendencies, making unilateral decisions and frequently disregarding the bylaws and the input of fellow board members and residents. Such leadership is often characterized by a stark lack of transparency and a penchant for intimidating or bullying others within the community.

This type of conduct not only undermines healthy community management but also poses substantial operational and legal challenges for the HOA. Tyrants may manipulate meeting agendas, curtail discussion periods to quash dissent, and withhold crucial information, such as financial statements and meeting minutes, which fosters an atmosphere of mistrust and suspicion among the residents.

Additionally, the intimidation tactics employed by Tyrants can create a hostile living environment, deterring community engagement and participation. The resulting legal and operational disruptions—ranging from decreased resident involvement to potential legal actions against the HOA—can divert resources away from essential community improvements and maintenance.

In the next section, we will delve deeper into the "Key Characteristics of a Tyrant" to better understand these behaviors and their impact on an HOA, outlining strategies to effectively address and mitigate these challenges.

Key Characteristics of a Tyrant:

Authoritarian Leadership:
A Tyrant within an HOA is typically characterized by a dominating presence in meetings and decision-making processes. This individual exerts control by overriding the consensus of the board, often unilaterally making decisions without open discussion or adequate consultation with other board members. This style of leadership results in the dismissal of dissenting opinions and alternative perspectives, stifling the collaborative environment that is essential for effective community governance.

The Tyrant's approach can severely limit the board's ability to function as a democratic entity. They often manipulate the agenda, set restrictive time limits on discussions, or strategically schedule meetings to minimize attendance and reduce opposition. Such tactics not only undermine the decision-making process but also create an atmosphere of helplessness and frustration among board members and residents who feel their voices are not being heard. This erosion of democratic principles can lead to significant discontent within the community, impacting overall morale and cooperation.

Lack of Transparency:
A Tyrant in an HOA also often operates under a veil of secrecy, which serves as a critical component of their control over the community. This lack of transparency is manifested in several ways, most notably through the withholding of critical information from both the board members and the homeowners they are supposed to serve. Essential details regarding financial transactions, upcoming projects, policy changes, and other governance matters are often obscured or selectively disclosed.

This secretive behavior can lead to significant issues within the community. For one, it breeds mistrust among homeowners who feel they are not adequately informed about the decisions affecting their lives and investments. Moreover, other board members may find themselves unable to perform their duties effectively due to a lack of access to complete and timely information, which is necessary for informed governance.

Additionally, by controlling the flow of information, a Tyrant can manipulate outcomes to their advantage, ensuring that decisions align with their personal agenda rather than the community's best interest. The resulting environment can discourage active participation and engagement from homeowners who might otherwise contribute to a vibrant community life. They may feel disempowered and disengaged, believing that their input will neither be heard nor valued.

Ultimately, this lack of transparency not only undermines the integrity of the HOA's governance but can also lead to legal complications. Homeowners and board members may resort to formal grievances or legal actions to compel the disclosure of information, leading to conflict and potential litigation that could have been avoided through more open and transparent governance practices.

Selective Rule Enforcement:
A hallmark of tyrannical leadership within an HOA is the selective enforcement of rules and regulations. A Tyrant in this context wields community guidelines not as fair standards to be uniformly applied, but as tools to further personal agendas, reward allies, or penalize opponents. This manipulative application of the rules not only undermines the principle of fairness that should underpin community management but also contributes to a divisive and hostile environment.

Selective enforcement typically manifests in several problematic ways. Firstly, a Tyrant may choose to ignore certain violations committed by themselves or their supporters, thereby creating a sense of impunity among a favored few. Conversely, they may apply rules with extreme rigor against those they view as threats or detractors. For instance, minor infractions that might typically be overlooked or resolved informally could result in maximum penalties or fines for selected individuals.

This practice can severely damage the communal spirit, leading to resentment and conflict among homeowners. It can also erode trust in the HOA board's ability to govern impartially, as residents begin to see the association not as a body that upholds community standards but as a tool of oppression wielded by a few.

Moreover, such selective rule enforcement can expose the HOA to significant legal risks. Homeowners who feel targeted or unfairly treated may challenge the HOA's actions legally, leading to costly and time-consuming litigation. These legal battles can deplete the association's resources and divert attention from essential community functions and improvements.

Additionally, the perception or reality of biased rule application can deter potential homebuyers, impacting property values and the overall attractiveness of the community. It is thus crucial for the health and viability of an HOA that rules are applied consistently and transparently, ensuring that all members are treated equitably.

Intimidation Tactics:
The use of intimidation tactics by a Tyrant can be a particularly corrosive force. Such individuals leverage their position of authority to bully or suppress opposition, employing fear or punitive measures as a means to maintain control and discourage dissent. This approach can profoundly impact the psychological and social fabric of the community, leading to an atmosphere where residents feel unsafe and unwilling to express their opinions or challenge the board's decisions.

Intimidation can manifest in various forms, ranging from verbal threats and aggressive behavior during meetings to more subtle but equally damaging actions like spreading rumors or engaging in character assassination. Tyrants may also use their authority to impose excessive fines or sanctions for minor infractions, specifically targeting those who have voiced disagreement with their policies or actions.

Furthermore, such leaders might threaten legal action against dissenters or misuse their power to initiate unwarranted legal proceedings, thereby increasing the financial and emotional strain on those who oppose them. This tactic not only silences current opposition but also serves as a stern warning to others in the community who might consider speaking out, effectively stifling future dissent.

This environment of fear can lead to a decrease in community engagement, as residents may choose to withdraw from participation in HOA meetings or discussions to avoid becoming targets themselves. Over time, this can erode the sense of community and cooperation that is vital for the effective management of the association.

Moreover, the use of intimidation tactics by a Tyrant can have long-term repercussions for the HOA as a whole. It can result in high turnover among board members and a lack of qualified individuals willing to serve, as few may be willing to expose themselves to such a toxic environment. This can lead to governance issues and a decline in the overall health and sustainability of the community.

It is crucial for an HOA to have mechanisms in place to address such behavior. These might include clear bylaws regarding the conduct of board members, a robust grievance process, and regular training on conflict resolution and ethical governance. Engaging a legal professional who specializes in HOA law can also provide guidance and support in dealing with intimidation tactics effectively, ensuring that the rights and well-being of all community members are protected.

Resistance to Accountability:
Encountering a Tyrant can significantly test the association's governance structures. Such a figure often shows a pronounced resistance to accountability, cleverly sidestepping the oversight mechanisms that maintain transparency and fairness in the community's operations.

Imagine an HOA board meeting orchestrated by a Tyrant. They might schedule these gatherings at times when attendance is predictably low or provide minimal notice, reducing the likelihood that their decisions face meaningful scrutiny. During these meetings, the Tyrant might manipulate the agenda, limiting discussions or the exploration of alternative views that could challenge their authority.

Furthermore, a Tyrant's interpretation of the association's bylaws often serves their interests rather than reflecting the community's needs. They may selectively enforce rules or choose to ignore them altogether when it suits their purposes. This manipulation erodes trust and can set a harmful precedent, demonstrating to the community that rules are not applied consistently or fairly.

Information control is another tactic in the Tyrant's arsenal. By withholding crucial financial reports or updates on board decisions, they keep the community uninformed and, therefore, unable to question or contest their actions effectively. This lack of transparency can lead to mismanagement and fosters a general atmosphere of suspicion and resentment among the residents.

In scenarios where formal procedures should provide checks and balances—such as financial approvals, contracting, or grievance resolutions—the Tyrant finds ways to bypass these safeguards. This might mean pushing through decisions without the proper vetting or retaliating against those who dare to raise concerns, using their power to intimidate or legally threaten detractors.

The cumulative impact of these tactics is a governance environment where accountability is scant, and the Tyrant's decisions go largely unchecked. This can lead to financial discrepancies, unresolved community disputes, and a pervasive decline in resident satisfaction and engagement.

To combat such resistance to accountability, other board members and the community at large must enforce rigorous governance practices. This might include instituting transparent reporting mechanisms, ensuring regular financial audits, and creating open forums for feedback and discussion. In cases where these measures are insufficient, legal intervention might become necessary. Engaging with an experienced HOA attorney can provide the guidance needed to navigate these challenges, helping to restore and uphold integrity within the community's governance.

Legal Remedies for Dealing with a Tyrant

Navigating the challenges posed by a tyrannical board member in a Homeowners' Association (HOA) requires more than just patience and diplomacy; it often necessitates legal intervention. In this section, we will explore the various legal remedies available to homeowners who find themselves under the rule of a Tyrant. These strategies can help restore fairness and ensure that the governance of your community adheres to both legal standards and the principles of just leadership.

Documentation and Record-Keeping:
When dealing with a tyrannical board member in a Homeowners' Association (HOA), it's essential for homeowners to meticulously document every instance of oppressive behavior or violations of rules. This documentation forms the backbone of any potential legal challenge and is indispensable for upholding the community's governance standards.

Imagine a scenario where an HOA board member frequently oversteps his boundaries. Homeowners observing this behavior should begin by maintaining a detailed log. This log would include entries for each incident, noting the date, time, and a thorough description of what occurred. Whether it's an unauthorized decision, a harsh interaction, or a biased enforcement of rules, every detail counts.

Alongside the log, homeowners should gather all related written communications. This collection could include emails, newsletters, text messages, and written notices from the tyrant or concerning the incidents. These documents can reveal patterns in the Tyrant’s behavior and prove crucial in establishing the context and frequency of his actions.

In environments where it is legally permissible, recording meetings might be another step homeowners take. If the tyrant’s behavior is also disruptive during meetings, an audio or video recording can capture these moments vividly, providing real-time evidence that written records alone might not convey. It’s vital, however, to ensure that recording these sessions adheres to local laws and HOA policies regarding privacy and consent.

Witness statements from fellow homeowners and board members who have observed the tyrant’s behavior can further bolster the documentation. These statements can add layers of credibility and perspective to the documented evidence, illustrating the impact of the tyrant’s actions on the community.

For issues that involve physical alterations or evident rule violations, such as unauthorized construction or modifications in community spaces, photographs can serve as clear, indisputable evidence. These should be date-stamped to show the timeline of the infractions clearly.

Finally, securing official HOA documents like the bylaws, CC&Rs, meeting minutes, and financial records can help demonstrate discrepancies between the tyrant's actions and the association’s official procedures and rules. These documents provide the framework against which his actions can be measured and judged.

Through diligent record-keeping, homeowners arm themselves with a robust defense should they need to challenge the tyrant's actions in a more formal setting, be it in an HOA meeting or a courtroom. Proper documentation not only clarifies the narrative but also ensures that the homeowners’ grievances are taken seriously, paving the way for a fair resolution.

Informal Dispute Resolution (IDR):
Under the guidelines of the Davis-Stirling Act in California, initiating an Informal Dispute Resolution (IDR) session is recommended as a proactive step toward resolving conflicts within Homeowners' Associations (HOAs) without immediately turning to litigation. This approach is especially useful in communities where tensions may be high, but there remains a possibility for negotiation and reconciliation.

Picture this scenario: within your HOA, a board member, whom we'll refer to as the tyrant, has been exercising his power with a heavy hand, leading to widespread dissatisfaction among the residents. Before escalating the situation to the courts, which can be both costly and time-consuming, you decide to explore IDR as a potential solution.

The process begins with you, the homeowner, sending a formal request to the HOA board, expressing your concerns about the tyrant's actions and requesting an IDR session. This request might detail specific instances of his behavior that you believe violate the community’s rules or your rights as a homeowner. The goal here is to open a dialogue in a less confrontational setting, where both parties can discuss their issues face-to-face, potentially leading to a mutual understanding or agreement.

In preparation for the IDR meeting, you gather all relevant documentation, including any records and witness testimonies that substantiate your claims. This preparation ensures that you enter the discussion well-equipped to present your case clearly and concisely.

The IDR session itself would ideally be facilitated by a neutral third party, perhaps a mediator, to ensure that the discussion remains productive and that both sides are heard. During the meeting, you present your concerns regarding the tyrant's behavior, using your documentation to highlight how his actions have impacted the community negatively.

However, if the tyrant's behavior has been particularly egregious, showing a clear pattern of abuse of power or a flagrant disregard for the community’s rules and well-being, relying solely on IDR might not be sufficient. In such cases, while IDR serves as a necessary first step demonstrating an attempt to resolve issues amicably, it might also become apparent during the process that more formal measures are necessary. This realization could lead you to prepare for the next steps, possibly involving legal action, where the documented patterns of behavior and the outcomes of the IDR session will play crucial roles in presenting a strong case.

Thus, while IDR offers a pathway to resolution that can circumvent the complexities and adversarial nature of legal proceedings, it also sets the stage for more decisive action if initial attempts at reconciliation fail. This dual potential makes IDR an essential tool in the arsenal of any homeowner facing challenges within their HOA.

Formal Legal Action:
When faced with a tyrannical board member whose behavior not only disrupts but damages the community, the path to resolution may necessitate formal legal action. In such instances, consulting with an experienced HOA attorney becomes not just beneficial but essential. The role of an attorney is multifaceted, offering a beacon of hope and a course of action for those feeling overwhelmed and underrepresented in their community affairs.

Consider the scenario where attempts at informal resolution, such as IDR, have failed, and the tyrant’s behavior continues unabated, possibly worsening. As a homeowner, you realize that more stringent measures are needed. The first step is finding an attorney who specializes in HOA law, understanding the unique dynamics and legal frameworks of community associations.

Upon engaging an attorney, the first task they undertake is to assess the situation thoroughly. This involves reviewing all documentation you’ve gathered, understanding the history of disputes, and analyzing the bylaws and governance documents of your HOA. This comprehensive evaluation helps the attorney to grasp the severity of the situation and to strategize an appropriate legal response.

Once the situation is assessed, your attorney can initiate legal notices. These are formal communications addressed to the tyrant or the HOA board, articulating the legal stance on the matters at hand. Such notices might include demands for ceasing and desisting harmful behaviors, or they could involve notifying the board of impending legal actions if certain behaviors do not change. These documents serve as a formal declaration of dispute, laying the groundwork for potential litigation and showing the tyrant and the board that legal actions are serious and imminent.

If the issues are not resolved through these initial notices, or if the severity of the situation warrants immediate legal intervention, your attorney will represent you in mediation or litigation. Mediation serves as a middle ground, offering a chance for both parties to negotiate a settlement with the help of a neutral mediator. It’s a less adversarial process than litigation and often leads to a resolution that is acceptable to both parties, saving time, money, and further community strain.

However, if mediation fails or is inappropriate given the circumstances, litigation becomes the necessary path. In the courtroom, your attorney's role shifts to that of an advocate fighting on your behalf. They will present your case, argue the legal points, and provide evidence of the tyrant's detrimental behavior to the judge or jury. This process can be lengthy and complex, involving various stages of motions, hearings, and potentially a trial.

Throughout this journey, the attorney not only serves as your legal representative but also as an advisor who helps you navigate the often tumultuous waters of HOA disputes. Their expertise allows you to understand each step of the process, anticipate possible outcomes, and make informed decisions about how to proceed at each juncture.

Thus, when dealing with a Tyrant in an HOA, formal legal action guided by a seasoned attorney offers a structured and legally sound means of seeking resolution and restoring harmony to your community.

Mobilizing Community Support:
In the shadow of a tyrant’s rule within an HOA, isolation becomes a powerful tool, used to maintain control and stifle opposition. However, one of the most effective countermeasures to this tactic is for homeowners to unite, forming a coalition that can collectively challenge the tyrant’s authority. This process of building alliances not only breaks the cycle of isolation but also amplifies the voices and concerns of the community members.

Imagine a scenario where the tyrant, through a combination of intimidation and selective rule enforcement, has individually silenced dissenting voices within the community. Each homeowner feels alone and powerless, reluctant to speak up for fear of retribution. In such a setting, the initial step toward mobilizing community support might start with a simple conversation between neighbors.

These conversations can occur at community events, during casual encounters, or through organized meetings where residents feel safe to express their concerns. As these discussions become more frequent, a clearer picture of the collective grievances begins to emerge, and a shared resolve to initiate change develops. Homeowners may start to realize that their individual problems with the tyrant are not isolated incidents but part of a broader pattern of abusive governance.

With a unified front, homeowners can more effectively organize and strategize their next steps. This might involve formal gatherings to discuss the community’s bylaws and the tyrant’s infractions, creating petitions, or even coordinating community votes to address and amend governance policies. Collectively, the group can also decide to attend HOA meetings en masse, ensuring that the tyrant’s actions are scrutinized and that the community's voice is heard loud and clear.

Moreover, a unified group of homeowners has better resources to engage legal help, share the financial burden of potential legal fees, and gather a comprehensive collection of evidence and testimonies that highlight the tyrant’s misconduct. This collaboration can significantly enhance the effectiveness of any legal action taken, as it shows a pattern of behavior that affects multiple residents, rather than isolated complaints.

Ultimately, by mobilizing community support, homeowners transform from isolated individuals into a powerful collective force. This shift not only challenges the tyrant’s authority but also reinstates a sense of community and shared purpose among the residents. Together, they can foster an environment of mutual support and accountability, ensuring that the governance of their HOA reflects the community’s collective will and best interests.

Voting the Tyrant Out:
One of the most definitive actions that homeowners in an HOA can take against a tyrannical board member is to exercise their voting rights to remove him/her from power. This process, deeply rooted in the democratic principles enshrined in the HOA's governing documents, offers a direct and powerful means of reclaiming control over the community's future.

In both California and Florida, the laws governing HOAs provide clear mechanisms for homeowners to initiate and execute the removal of board members who fail to act in the community’s best interests. The process typically begins with a clear understanding of these laws and the specific bylaws of the HOA concerning board member elections and removals.

Imagine a scenario where the tyrant, through various manipulative and oppressive tactics, has alienated the community. Discussions among homeowners reveal a collective desire for change, prompting them to look into their HOA's governing documents. Here, they find the provisions that outline the process for calling a special meeting of the members, which includes requirements for a petition signed by a certain percentage of homeowners.

Mobilizing the community, homeowners begin circulating a petition to call for a special election. This phase requires strategic organization and communication, ensuring that every homeowner understands the stakes and the process. Community meetings, newsletters, and informal gatherings become platforms for rallying support and educating the community about their rights and the impact of their vote.

Once the petition garners sufficient signatures, a special meeting is scheduled. Leading up to this meeting, homeowners engage in a campaign to present their case against the tyrant, highlighting specific instances of his tyrannical behavior and how it has harmed the community. This campaign is crucial, as it lays the groundwork for the upcoming vote, ensuring that homeowners are informed and resolute in their decision.

On the day of the special meeting, homeowners come together in a demonstration of community strength and purpose. The vote is conducted according to the HOA’s rules, often requiring a majority of the homeowners to agree on the removal of the board member. This moment is pivotal, as it not only determines the immediate future of the tyrant’s position but also sets a precedent for accountability and governance within the HOA.

Successfully voting out a tyrannical board member not only liberates the community from oppressive leadership but also restores a sense of empowerment among homeowners. It reaffirms their rights and capabilities to shape the governance of their community, ensuring that the HOA operates transparently and democratically. This action also sends a strong message to current and future board members about the community's expectations and the importance of serving with integrity and respect for the collective welfare of the residents.

Conclusion

Homeowners troubled by a tyrannical board member in their HOA should not feel powerless. By understanding the legal options and rights available, and possibly engaging a skilled HOA attorney or lawyer from LS Carlson Law, residents can take significant steps towards restoring fairness and respect within their community. For homeowners in California and Florida, where the dynamics of community management can be particularly challenging, it is crucial to approach such situations with a well-planned strategy, supported by legal expertise.

For further guidance and personalized advice, consider consulting with LS Carlson Law, where protecting homeowner rights against overreaching HOAs is our specialty. Navigate these challenging waters with an expert by your side and ensure that your community remains a fair and pleasant place to live.

Bad HOA Podcast, "The Meddler" Transcript

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

So in terms of steps on ramping up the aggressiveness on trying to get these things resolved, we talked a little bit about last time about requesting IDRs should be like the first step in most of these cases.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

It tends to be, but it depends on the intensity of the tyrant. Okay. Because you also don't want to subject yourself to just a horrible meeting, if you don't have to. Yeah. If there's other methodologies available to you, IDR may not be appropriate if you think it's just gonna be a shouting match. I'm Luke Carlson, and for almost two decades, my law firm, LS Carlson Law, has been at the forefront of defending homeowners against overreaching HOAs. We're not just leading the charge, we've created the go -to playbook on how to fight back effectively. Join us as we delve into the world of HOA disputes, sharing insights from our extensive experience and landmark victories. Throughout this podcast, we'll bring you in -depth interviews, demystify complex legal principles, and provide practical tips to safeguard your rights. While the information provided shouldn't be taken as legal advice, our aim is to empower you with the knowledge, strategies, and real -life success stories needed to navigate

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

and overcome the challenges posed by overreaching HOAs.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Hi, I'm Luke Carlson of LS Carlson Law. Welcome back to the show. Today, we are going to continue this theme of bad actors within an HOA. Now, Ellis Carlson Law operates in California and Florida, and over the last decade or so, we've seen a consistent theme of certain characters that really drive bad HOAs. Last week, we discussed the meddler. This week is kind of exciting because we're talking about the tyrant. Today, we have Jenny Carlson on the show as well.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Hi, thanks for having me.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Thanks for being on the show. And we have Marty.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Good morning.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

So the reason, you know, one attorney, two non -lawyers, we do this in order to ensure that we cover everything. Sometimes, when lawyers discuss these topics, they get too myopic on legal issues. And I think this is a good balance with that. So how would you guys like to start?

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Well, I think you did the intros pretty well. So let's just dive right into it and identify, you know, what is the tyrant?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Okay. So the tyrant's interesting. And I want to draw a distinction between a tyrant personality and a meddler because often And some of the results are the same, but I think the characteristics are different. Because as I see the meddler, that's the individual in the HOA who has just way too much curiosity. They're up in everyone's business.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

Just loves to be involved.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Correct. But what they don't have is the malice, which often drives the tyrant behavior. So as I see it, the tyrant is driven by sort of malicious drive or motivation, or they just want power for the sake of having power.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

So the distinguishing factor is malice?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Maybe so to an extent or power or the procurement of power versus the meddler who just likes to be up in everyone's business. I don't know if there's an endgame with the meddler. They just kind of meddle.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

These are all HOA board members assumed, right?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Correct. Board members or directors of the board. So yeah. So when you have a tyrant, the problem is and we came up with a good list of this and I like this. So I'll break it down, but these are the common traits and behaviors that we see. So authoritarian leadership. So what does that mean? In my mind, or what we've seen, is the tyrant takes control of the board. It's not an open forum. It's their word, and everyone else just has to obey, irrespective of whether they're right or wrong. And they shut down commentary, even if it's constructive. So that's what we mean by authoritarian leadership. Lack of transparency is also an interesting one and tyrants often operate somewhat in the shadows. They do things without notifying everybody. Why? Because often what they're doing is they're overreaching or crossing a line. So that's something to look out for. Unilateral decision -making also is sort of consistent with that authoritarian leadership, right?

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

To me, that means control. Unilateral decision -making just means I want control.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Control or power.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

Correct.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Right? So that's what they're seeking. And when they do it unilaterally without input, they're exerting control over the board, but also over the community as a whole. And when you see that behavior, the real problem is, well, one, it is inconsistent with the spirit of HOA law in general, but you start to see decisions which favor that individual. So they're not looking out for the whole community, it's self -- it benefits them individually.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

And I would assume the people that are in their inner circle are that they want to grease their palms or be able to -- Yeah, sometimes you have a pool of tyrants, right?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Disregard for due process, again, if they were to follow everything by the book, they probably wouldn't be able to get the control that they want. So due process is a set of rules and regulations that surround HOA. So when a decision has to be made, typically there are steps to do it. There's a vote. There's input from the community. They short circuit it, and they just lay it down.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Now, people can often get confused with a tyrant just because, I mean, the CC &Rs and rules and regulations could be quite restrictive, and those people are just enforcing those rights. So it's not to get confused with just the people that are literally going book by book. These are people going outside of what the book says just to make life a living hell or to benefit them personally in some way.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Yeah. Yeah, so I think what you're discussing there is you have two things, CC &R's bylaws really set the framework of how a board needs to operate. These are the tripwires. This is how you need to move something forward. The tyrant will disregard those. That's what I'm getting at. And operate outside the playbook or outside of the playbook. So that's really what you look for when it comes to a tyrant behavior. Are they following the bylaws? Are they following the CC &R's? If they're not, you have a problem. Sure. Let's see what else we have. Intimidation and bullying. So how we see that manifest, it's interesting. Sometimes what they'll do is they'll take the CC &Rs and weaponize them. And what do I mean by that? Well, let's say the tyrant doesn't like one individual homeowner. And all of a sudden that homeowner is getting fines, is getting violation notices, is being called to hearing. Well, to the extent that that individual owner is actually violating the CC &Rs, there's nothing wrong with the board enforcing the CC &Rs. But when it's targeted, when it's against one person that they just don't like. That becomes problematic, right? Or maybe you get a situation where you have the pool of tyrants. They're all violating the rules and regulations, but they're not being held accountable. That's also problematic.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

We have the tyrant and the meddler. The meddler is helping the tyrant to weaponize a single homeowner.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Yeah, you get some weird dynamics in these.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

And a single individual can cross multiple personality traits too. They could be not just a meddler, but also a meddling tyrant. Yeah, so this isn't a psychology show.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

It's supposed to really focus on personality, so I don't know what drives it, and yeah, I suppose you could have mixed personality types with the personality type of the tyrant.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

This is a nice one. I like this label or description. It's a resistance to accountability. So, how you see that play out is homeowners are up in arms and they lodge complaints against the tyrant. The tyrant will do everything they can to sidestep any sort of accountability for their actions.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

We call that lack of ownership.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Lack of ownership or just a disregard, just ignoring what's happening, right? They just push it away and they can sometimes work within a HOA board. Maybe they're friends with the attorney of the board and somehow they've worked out a deal where the attorney goes to bat for them and strikes down the complaints. So there's different ways that a tyrant can sort of maneuver, but ultimately to your point, to avoid that accountability.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

And this could get really problematic if it's like a board president or someone that's usually kind of top of the heap of the board.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Correct. Yeah. They're in a position where they can do it if that power goes unchecked, which is I guess the other part of this conversation. How do you keep that tyrant from, yeah. Yeah. Personal agendas, I kind of mentioned that, but again, it's power for power's sake, I suppose, but also you'll see undercurrents of self -interest. You know, they wanna push an agenda because it benefits their property, even though it's not benefiting anyone else. So take a common area, for example. Let's say there's a landscaping budget, and somehow, all of a sudden, most of the landscape budget goes to the greenbelt in front of their property, while they ignore other pieces of the community, right? Right. Self -interested, right? and they've taken their position to drive that self -interest, right? So that's what we're looking at there.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Okay, so dissenters, yeah. So when you have dissenters in a community, and those are the people who are vocal, who are saying, hey, this isn't right, you can't do this. What about the other green belts? Sometimes what you'll see as a result is sort of this retaliation against, the tyrant will retaliate against those complaining. So all of a sudden, if you're complaining a lot, But now you're getting violation notices. Now you're under scrutiny. So again, it's this notion of weaponizing the HOA and the tools at their disposal against certain individuals.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

But that can be dangerous because then it sets a precedent, well, I'm just not going to rock the boat because I don't want, I'm not going to say anything because I don't want the fees and fines or the wrath to come down. So it could, so then the authoritarianism can keep rising.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

It's self perpetuating.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. If you leave it unchecked, you don't enforce, it becomes a vicious cycle.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

And I feel like, more than anything, you see the homeowners that don't want to be in the spotlight, or the homeowners that just don't want a target on their back. So they're going to quietly sit in the background and have to stay there.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Yeah. So that's, yeah, problematic, obviously. All right. So what else do we have? Warning signs and how to curve the behavior. So I think the traits really will give you the red flags. I think you can spot a tyrant a mile away. Again, it's someone who's just taking control. Their decision -making seems to be driven by self -interest, more so than the good of the community.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Right. And I would assume lack of transparency, not providing any sort of rationale or context behind decisions that they're making would be another way of identifying a tyrant.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Yeah. I think the big one though is really that targeting or the preferential treatment. If you start to see that byproduct from a board, you might be dealing with a tyrant. So that is things to look for. So I think the big question ultimately for a homeowner is what do you do with a tyrant? Yeah, how do you enforce? Yeah, so there's different ways at least in California to really push back But you want to be strategic and you want to be intelligent about how you do it So, you know one of the opportunities any homeowner has in California is to demand what's called informal dispute resolution It's under the Davis Sterling Act and it's essentially you're gonna come up with a list of of wrongs You're gonna say hey you did this wrong. You did this wrong. I need to bring this to the board's attention You can demand IDR on the board, but ultimately what I see when we're dealing with a tyrant, you're going to show up at the IDR, which is really just an informal meeting, and the tyrant's going

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

to be there. And given their personality, it's more likely than not that that individual is just going to get shut down. The tyrant's not going to hear it. And so it can be a colossal waste of time and energy to go through with IDR, but it is at their disposal.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Is it so in terms of steps on ramping up the aggressiveness on trying to get these things resolved? We talked a little bit about last time about Requesting IDRs should be like the first step in most of these cases.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

It tends to be but it depends on the intensity of the tyrant. Okay, because you also don't want to subject yourself to just a horrible meeting if you don't have to yeah If there's if there's other methodologies available to you So IDR may not be appropriate if you think it's just going to be a shouting match.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Interesting. Because my assumption would have been, well, we have to go through these steps and lay out a timeline or a frame of reference here to get to that point.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Yeah. IDR isn't mandatory. Okay. It's a step. It's available. In a well -functioning HOA, it gets traction because it forces the board to sit down with you and you can air your grievances. And the spirit is really collaboration and trying to sidestep legal action.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

Right.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Right? You're trying to diffuse these situations internally within the HOA, not bringing out to legal. But again, with the tyrant, you may not get any traction.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

It could be tough. So it's one of those, it depends.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

It depends. Yeah. It's a fun legal phrase that we use often. It depends.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

It depends.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

So what would be the second step of ramping that up? So we identify the tyrant is, you know, it's not going to go anywhere. This person's out of control. So what's, I guess, level number two?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Yeah. So I think what's mission critical for any homeowner who's experiencing this is creating a file of some sort. You got to have examples, something concrete, you know, something that you can point to and you start collecting this, ultimately it's considered evidence, right? Against the tyrant, but you want to show up eventually to a lawyer and present the case. And really the, the lawyer's job is to go through your files, say, okay, this is a potential breach of the CC &Rs, this is a breach of fiduciary, and start framing it out legally, that's sort of step one. You've got to make sure that the conduct of the tyrant actually violates the owner's rights. Because without that or without something credible, you're going to be throwing money at a lawyer, and the lawyer's not going to be able to do much with your case. So assuming you meet with the lawyer and you are able to identify, okay, this has crossed the line and this is why. This is self -dealing. This is targeting homeowners to the exclusion of others. This is preferential treatment. Here are your causes of action. At that point, the lawyer really would have two options, I would say, that I think would be pretty reasonable. One would be to fire off a demand letter to the board, identifying the misconduct. And what's interesting about that is when a lawyer sends a demand to an association, you've got to remember an association is an entity, it's a legal entity. And more often than not, they're represented by counsel. So they have their own lawyer. So, in an ideal situation, your attorney prepares the demand, sends it to the other side, and a lawyer gets their head around what's happening. Now, a good lawyer, to the extent that there is breaches of these fiduciary duties, should be able to call your lawyer and try to strike some sort of resolution. Because you have to realize, too, that attorney may represent 17 other associations. The attorney may have no idea what's happening with your association. So that could be an effective way to get an adult in the room on the other side and open up those lines of communication. And again, it bypasses sort of that informal dispute resolution process where it's owner and board. Yeah. You're sort of elevating the dispute. Yeah. The downside of that is if the association attorney has been poisoned, it might be a waste of time. Because even if you have a brilliant attorney, the attorney calls their attorney, and that attorney just shuts down your attorney. Okay, that's kind of the end of that exchange, right? Right. Because you don't want to keep paying your lawyer to negotiate with a wall. If that attorney is stonewalling your attorney, you're wasting money. You're not getting traction.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

So then where does this go?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

So the other strategy, at least in California, that you can deploy is a demand for alternative dispute resolution. And I think we've discussed that in the past.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Yeah, we have. A little bit. Do you want to recap it just real quick? Yeah.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Essentially what that is, is it's different than a simple demand letter. Because if you send the ADR under the Davis -Sterling Act for breach of fiduciary, breach of CC &Rs, et cetera, you actually force the HOA to respond first and foremost within 30 days. So it's a legally charged document. The demand letter, in theory, they could ignore it, and there's no ramification. So you start to put legal pressure on the board, and majority of the time, an association attorney will accept the mediation. They'll agree to it. Because if they don't, there's a waiver of certain rights. I don't want to get too technical with it. But if you have that agreement, eventually where this lands is in the camp of a mediator, often a retired judge, and that retired judge is, in theory, a neutral who's supposed to facilitate a resolution. So now you have, in theory, a real adult in the room negotiating a resolution. And if the conduct is so egregious, it's highly likely that the mediator's going to capitulate

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

and say, yeah, this is awful conduct, this is a bad HOA, and now you have really good lines of communication open with the association, you have a neutral third party, and that's where you might actually be able to get traction.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Let me ask you this, though. Let's just say that you do win. How do you, I mean, in my mind, I'd want to get the cancer out, to get the tyrant off the board, and I mean, if they're in cahoots, even that lawyer out of there, how can a judge say, hey, you've violated so many things here, we can throw you out, or is it?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

No, so I have to make a distinction with mediation. Sure. Mediation, there's technically no win or lose. It's a negotiation. OK. So even if the retired judge comes to you and says, oh my god, this is a wonderful case in the sense that you have the evidence, this is a really bad HOA, in theory, that retired judge mediator could go over there and the other side could say, go kick rocks. We're doing nothing wrong. And there's no resolution. I would argue that's a failed mediation at that point, right, because you didn't actually agree to anything. And at that point, the owner would be forced to consider potentially litigating this dispute, which, if you can, you want to avoid that, because it's very costly, it's a timely process.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

That sounds like it's a last resort.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Correct. Alternatively, though, if the mediator can influence the other side, get them to see reason, you might be able to structure a resolution that everyone's happy with. Now we've seen it historically where the board president has been removed, self -selected out. Yeah, where they say, you know what? This is too much. I'm a volunteer. While I love being a tyrant, it's not worth it. So, you have to understand mediation in the truest sense is a negotiation. It's not a win or lose proposition. Now, you may come out with an outstanding outcome, but it wasn't because the mediator said you were the victor.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Sure. Is this ever a point where you go to arbitration versus mediation?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

That's a good question. So, arbitration is a form of litigation. And typically, arbitration is triggered by way of a contract. You have a contractual right to arbitrate versus taking it to state court, right? So with arbitration, in order to get into arbitration, there's two ways. One, everyone will agree that that's the best forum. Or if there's a contractual right to do so, you can sort of invoke that contractual right to force arbitration on the other side. Now, the benefit of arbitration is it tends to be a little bit more of a condensed timeline than state court. It's supposed to be a little bit more efficient. Economically, though, they can be very expensive. Some people, they're often pitched as really economic. But the reality is there's a lot of heavy lifting in arbitration as well. But those are binding. So if you, yeah, there's a huge difference in mediation. So if you take it to arbitration, which would likely be after the mediation didn't resolve, you go through the arbitration process, the arbitrator has the right to award a party, right? And you have an arbitration award. Once you have that document, you can then take it to the state court and they'll stamp it and it becomes enforceable at that time. So it becomes an enforceable award.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Now, in the years that you've been doing this, when you see a tyrant on the board, how, I mean, in terms of just rough percentages, one out of 10, are most of them solved in informal dispute resolution?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Yeah, so success rate for mediation tends to be high, but what I tell everybody, because I get asked this a lot, is we could have 100 % success rate at mediation, but that's not going to have any bearing on whether or not your case is going to resolve, because you're dealing with human beings. I don't have a crystal ball. I can't gauge whether I'm going to get a reasonable board that shows up or a reasonable lawyer. I mean, you can get a reasonable board, but you get a Rambo lawyer on the other side Who just wants scorched earth and shuts the whole thing down, right? So you can't really predict who shows up on the other side sure now You'll start to get a gauge from it though, you know after your lawyer sends the demand for ADR There's gonna be some negotiations before the mediation at that point in time You can start seeing who the players are on the other side What is their position and at that point you'll have a little bit of a better gauge of where this mediation might go and how?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Flexible they're willing correct, but beforehand. It's very challenging to say now

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

I don't think we've ever mentioned this, but in many cases, you have multiple homeowners come to you together for one case, right? To represent a group of homeowners. Is that not correct?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Yeah, we see groups every now and then, because often the homeowners are experiencing sort of an equal dissatisfaction with the HOA. They're all being harmed in some way. Maybe everyone's fair market value is being dropped, out, or there's some sort of impact that's very negative to their life in the association. What I often recommend, though, at least for this firm, for us, it's much easier and efficient to represent one homeowner and drive that forward, even though it's on behalf of everyone else. If they prevail at the, or if they settle at the mediation, it's going to have a trickle down effect. When you have four or five homeowners, it just becomes very clunky representation. Now, I think some law firms are probably maybe better equipped to handle multiple parties, but at least for this firm, it's very efficient to have maybe one, two at best homeowners and driving a case forward.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

I was just thinking in terms of sharing overall costs, if the tyrant is out of control and you get a ton of pushback from the other side and you're getting into the worst case scenario and you're having to go to litigation and it's going to be somewhat expensive.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Well, what happens, though, on those cases, we may represent, you know, party one or homeowner one. You know, it's not uncommon for them to cut deals on the back end to help fuel the litigation. We don't get involved in those types of relationships economically, but you may have seven or eight homeowners who are actually help funding the one.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

The one.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

So that is an option. That makes sense. My firm doesn't get involved in those dynamics. I understand. But that is an opportunity for them. Understood. I've seen that before. Yeah.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

It makes a lot of sense, actually.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Yeah, no, it's more effective.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Because the worst case scenario is you get this, you just feel trapped and totally stuck. Correct. And it's either you pay a boatload or you have to deal with this guy for however long. Correct. And if everyone's in cahoots on the board, how, it's gonna be difficult getting him removed.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Correct, and there's ways to do so, but I think to your point, there are some economic realities to doing so. Sure. To enforce your rights. All right, what else do we have?

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Do you have any key cases or examples that you want to discuss, a couple of highlights that you think would be interesting to share?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

I have several that just rush to my mind. We've seen a lot of tyrants. We had one client who had a tyrant for a board president and it was a beautiful condo association and essentially what the tyrant did was violated all the rules. I mean, there's certain restrictions on the patio use, what they could or could not put up. Their patio was in complete violation. And they were sticklers, though, with everyone else's patios, which is blatant. I mean, that's sort of black and white. It's like, hey, you're not following the rules, but you're coming after everyone else who are also in violation, right? So everyone else had to be in perfect conformity other than the tyrant, right? So that was the problem there.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Yeah.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

So the owner came in and said, you know, and it was gaudy, they had like all these statues and just very bizarre decorations on the patio that just, I mean, it was black and white violations of the CC &Rs, but the tyrant loved the statues, right? It was their thing. And so that turned out to be a big fight to get the removal of those gaudy statues out. And they really didn't have anything to say at mediation. I mean, we had pictures, we had evidence, we had the CC &Rs, it was black and white. right? And we also identified the board's decision to go after people who had like small plants or sort of smaller nonconforming issues. So we were able to hit the tyrant on their own breaches of the CC &Rs, but also the selective enforcement or preferential treatment that was happening. And I think that tyrant ended up resigning from the board, because the next step would have been litigation. And there wasn't much of a defense there. Now they got away with it for several years because no one would

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

enforce They just turned a blind eye right now. It's just one of those scenarios where that's just tyrant being tyrant Yeah, but eventually someone's like no that's BS. I want to enforce and we saw the case for like, oh my god This is I mean, this is we can do a very direct attack We showed up the mediation retired judge couldn't believe what they were seeing They couldn't believe that this was outstanding for five years. No one has done anything and it was Yeah, that was a very effective mediation

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Interesting. Yeah. All right. We got a we have a curveball for you. Hit me. Okay. I like balls. So Reddit you've been on reddit

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

I'm aware of the platform

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

There's a a subreddit aka a group. Okay, that is called Without using the word it's FHOA. I see where this is going and it's all people complaining and telling stories about how horrible their HOA is.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

I probably know some of them.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure there's one in there. So we thought it would be fun to cherry pick out a tyrant for you. Okay. And then, so Jenny's going to read the actual post. We made some adjustments so it's a little bit easier to read. Okay. And then you can give your take on how you would approach that person. Oh, this is fun. Kind of from, all right, from start to finish and ramping up certain legal ramifications. All right. This is interesting.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

The title is my favorite. HOA president is awful. As a homeowner in our community of 200 residences, I've witnessed a troubling sequence of events since our homeowners association was established a year ago. One individual who has been ambitiously eyeing the presidency from the start, embarked on a campaign to secure votes by canvassing door to door and distributing flyers. Upon securing the presidency, he enacted significant changes, dismissing our original management company, contracting a new one, appointing a new HOA attorney, and instituting a ban on ATV use within our neighborhood. The remaining board members seemed to support these actions. However, the situation quickly deteriorated. The president exhibits an intolerance for dissent. During community Zoom meetings, he has muted and expelled participants for any hint of criticism or negativity society, contrary to our HOA's established rules that promised open dialogue. Furthermore, he has resorted to publicly chastising homeowners via community-wide emails, displaying a penchant for pettiness and hostility. Our community's Facebook group, a platform for open discussion, has become another tool for surveillance under his watch. Any contentious posts are swiftly removed by an admin, and the president has an assistant print and deliver these posts to him, creating an atmosphere of fear and self-censorship. The professionalism of the newly hired management company is concerning. Led by a single individual, the company frequently issues poorly written communications and fails to adequately address homeowners' inquiries, deferring matters to the board, which then remains unresponsive. Theocratic nature of our HOA president was starkly evident when a homeowner who criticized him on our HOA website was suddenly unable to access his account. The management company's response was dismissive at best. In a bold move, this homeowner distributed a letter outlining his grievances to every household in the community via hand -delivered letters to each, only to be met with a no -trespass order from the president, backed by law enforcement, severely restricting his movements within our own community. What steps can we take as homeowners to gain control over the community?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

That is a lot to unpack. All right, give that to me real quick. I'm like, I don't even know where you begin, but this is why we're here. There's a lot. There's a lot of questions here too, though. And I'll analyze this under the lens of California law.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

Oh, can I see the...

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Yeah, so how am I seeing this? Well, I think there might even be a false imprisonment claim with a restriction of use. So that might be false imprisonment. In terms of restricting access, I would want to see how tightly that was contained.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Are you talking about the restricting access to the platform?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

No, no, no. I thought there was something where they actually restricted the use of land. That would be a far stretch one, but I would want to investigate that.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Well, like the ATV no use policy?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

No, that's not it.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

That jumped out to me immediately. I'll put the false imprisonment one aside. I would have to look at that a little bit more carefully because that would be awesome if you go after them for false imprisonment. Why does that, why does that? I mean, that's a big violation of rights. And we had a case once, this was a Florida case, but essentially what happened was this was during COVID. And one of our clients, they got COVID, they caught COVID, and the association actually locked them in their unit. They didn't let them leave. Now that's extreme, right? I mean, that's so extreme. In Florida. But, you know, the restriction of movability, right, to lock someone down. I don't know how egregious this was. I would want to explore that. There might be defamation claims when they're putting people on blast. You'd have to assess that.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

What about the removal of accounts?

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Or no accesses.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

Right.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Well, no access might be a lack of transparency. There might be violations of the Davis -Sterling Act here. There might be self -dealing. Often when you see a board president who all of a sudden inserts a new management company, it'd be interesting to see the relationship between the two. Now, you're not necessarily gonna know immediately whether self -dealing is happening, but let's say this really escalates and now you're into actual litigation and you see checks being kicked back to him personally, right, he hires a management company, he's like, we'll pay you 10 ,000 a month to manage the community. Well, all of a sudden though, you see the 10 ,000 go out, but you see a $2 ,000 check come back. Sure. So there might be some elements of self -dealing here. That is very high level. I mean, you might have breaches of fiduciary, you might have breaches of the bylaws or the CC &Rs when they're shutting people down in the community, shutting off their ability to speak freely.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Yeah.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

So you're going to have probably a laundry list of causes of action. The question though is, okay, what do you do with that? Yes. Right? How do you enforce that? In my mind, I would avoid IDR, like the plague. I think it'd be a waste of time. time, I would probably also discourage the owner to hire a lawyer to send a demand letter. If this attorney is in bed with this president.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Which it sounds like, I mean, he fired the property management and the attorney right from the onset. Yeah.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Yeah, he's stacking the deck. So I would imagine that a demand letter would hit that attorney's desk. Maybe there's some good faith negotiations, but I don't think they're going to go anywhere. And again, I don't have all the facts here. I mean, I have a good amount of facts, but IDR might be a waste of time. So homeowner -driven IDR, you're going to get shut down, or I'd anticipate you would. A demand letter from a lawyer might be a waste of your money, meaning you're hiring a lawyer to send a demand letter to negotiate. But again, this is the negotiating with the wall.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

When you're sending a demand letter, you're going to assume that it's in good faith.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

When we send it, it's in good faith. The response, though, may very well be in bad faith, because that attorney, the well may already be poisoned. Right. Now, a cunning lawyer on the other side would do this, oh, I got your letter. This is horrible. Let me investigate. And all of a sudden, you're negotiating back and forth at six months down the road. You spend a good deal on your lawyer to negotiate. And six months, the attorney says, yeah, thank you so much for your time. Go kick rocks. We're not going to do anything. Right? Now, you just blew money and time.

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

Yeah.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

So I think IDR might turn into a money pit pretty quickly and not get traction. litigation, this one likely ADR, start with ADR, and see if you can get some pressure on them immediately. I would also recommend a corporation's demand, or under the code you can request certain financial information. That might be a powerful tool here just to get some transparency out of it. Now the issue with ADR versus litigation is you don't have all the discovery mechanisms. So in litigation, you can call this tyrant in for a deposition. You can subpoena bank records. You can do so much. But in ADR, you really don't have that power. If they agree, great. They'll turn it over. But if they don't, you can't run to a judge and say, hey, they're not turning this over. So you're a bit more limited, but that would be the opening attack on this situation. I think it would be ADR. I don't know what state this is. I don't know if they have those types of provisions. But at least in California, obviously there would be a little bit more due diligence on our part to confirm this strategy. But I think ADR would probably be appropriate. It's a good starting point. IDR seems like it would just be a complete waste of time.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

And I would assume you should, just like we said earlier, as soon as you start seeing the red flags, start collecting evidence immediately. And it sounds like there's multiple homeowners involved here that can start collecting evidence. And is that beneficial to have multiple homeowners start collecting evidence?

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

I think the more evidence you have, the better. You know, eventually it may be consolidated under one file. Sure. And then one owner will take the lead or in terms of the attack.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Yeah.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Yeah. So, no, the more the better. The more you can show that this guy is an absolute tyrant and out of his mind, the better, right? And when you can start showing breaches, though, that's where it matters legally, they breach their fiduciary, self -interest, maybe self -dealing. There might even be some form of invasion of privacy, potentially. There might be violations of their own bylaws. They're not following protocol. I mean, there might be a lot of stuff. When you actually jump into this and start unpacking it, you might be able to come out with a world of false imprisonment, though I do have a question mark because I don't

Bad HOA Guest, HOA Homeowner, Jenny Carlson

I don't know if I was right on that. I'm trying to read for it. I don't see, maybe I misunderstood what you said. But you would review all of these and see, okay, which cause of action would you wanna lead with? What's the support of that? And then once you have that framework, that becomes the basis of your ADR demand. Because also with ADR demands, you wanna make sure they're comprehensive. You wanna make sure any lawyer who picks it up on the other side says, oh my God, they've done their diligence. They've crossed their T's, they dotted their lowercase J's. You got to make sure that you come well healed because the other side the opposition you want them to know, okay They've done their homework. They've done their investigation. They're not messing around versus an ADR demand. That's just skeletal Mm -hmm. I see those all the time. It's like hey, we're upset because of this we hereby demand ADR Okay, you spent like $8 on this letter go kick rocks. No one's investigated. Yeah But that was a fun one We all read this this So, Reddit.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Yeah, you're gonna be trolling that now. Yeah. Ha, ha, ha.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

So that was good.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

That was fun. Now that's interesting. That's certainly interesting. I don't know. Did I pass the test? No, I liked it. I found it really interesting.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

So, the next episode's a fun one as well. The Incompetent.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

Oh, the Incompetent. Yes, I like the Incompetent. Yeah, so maybe I'll tease that one. Yeah. So the Incompetent operates in its own sort of vacuum. This is, they're not a meddler, they're not a tyrant, and sometimes the interesting thing with the incompetent is they're very good -willed, or they have good will. They want to do the best for the community, but they don't understand anything. You know, the complexity of a director can't be understated. When you're in a director's seat or you're on the board, you're dealing with fiduciary relationships, you're dealing with CC &Rs, you're dealing with corporate governance, you're dealing with state law, and you have to understand all of these things to operate effectively. Because again, I don't want to be perceived as someone who's against associations. When they're properly run and maintained, they can be a great thing. They preserve fair market value. And it actually can be a very positive thing.

Bad HOA Podcast Producer, Marty Vasquez

Yeah, you yourself live in an association.

Bad HOA Podcast Host, HOA Attorney, Luke Carlson, Esq.

And it runs very well. Knock on wood.